tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8788527586464580894.post8101315120489225534..comments2023-07-31T17:06:20.955-05:00Comments on Science and Sexuality: The Biology of Sexual Identity, Sexual Orientation, and Intersexuality.: Intersex People – Disordered or Different? The DSD DebateVeronica Drantz, PhDhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03459966721114852508noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8788527586464580894.post-49250556562999209702009-08-04T10:25:29.398-05:002009-08-04T10:25:29.398-05:00I hope you have a good time at Michfest.
I also h...I hope you have a good time at Michfest.<br /><br />I also hope you can reach some whose minds are not completely closed.<br /><br />The Michfest forum is no longer the vitiol-filled spitefest that it was even a few years ago, but it's still an unpleasant place. My thanks for making an effort there.<br /><br />I will be seeing Milton Diamond in about two weeks, and will pass oin your warm regards and your questions to him. Actually, they're ones I've wondered about myself. Especially the change if orientation I experienced - although I think it would be more accurate to say that I acquired an orientation rather than changed it. <br /><br />As a scientist, it fascinates me. As a rather straight-laced and uptight woman who under other circumstances could have been in the "Concerned Women of America" (or for that matter, the Young Pioneers or BDM) it makes me feel uncomfortable thinking about it!<br /><br />My one regret is that I will not see your presentations at Michfest. While I have no qualms about taking on the Catholic Church, the John Birch Society, the Southern Baptist Conference and those of similar kidney, I would not feel safe there. While people - and I use the word loosely - like dirtywhiteboi have managed to sic the IRS on transwomen alleging "identity fraud" - claiming marriage benefits for example, because a marriage continues as a lesbian relationship - and while I would be an alien and thus subject to being arrested under circumstances that would otherwise violate the US Constitution, I dare not take the risk. There are some there who would do it in a heartbeat.<br /><br />It's a lot better than it was though.Zoe Brainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13712045376060102538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8788527586464580894.post-24069484292860768902009-08-02T03:24:41.903-05:002009-08-02T03:24:41.903-05:00> In these instances, have the brains been pren...> In these instances, have the brains been prenatally organized as bisexual in orientation, but these individuals sense the “other orientation” only after activation of the organized brain region(s) by the new hormone levels – i.e. a puberty-like brain awakening?<br /><br /><br />As a person who has expierienced this I think this to be defintly the case. What becomes more interesting: I gone off hormones for four years due to health issues and was asexual in that time. Back on hormones (and androgenblockers) men became more interesting again.Bad hair dayshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02074719911527566883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8788527586464580894.post-22847230398830951642009-08-01T14:42:18.124-05:002009-08-01T14:42:18.124-05:00Hi Zoe,
Wow, you’re meeting Milton Diamond in per...Hi Zoe,<br /><br />Wow, you’re meeting Milton Diamond in person! I envy you! I regard him as a great biologist and as a mensch who has championed the dignity and rights of all innately sexually variant people.<br /><br />As far as my article is concerned, Dr. Diamond already knows about it. Much to my delight, he sent me an email thanking me for “defending” him regarding the Davidson work. (I am awaiting Dr. Diamond’s permission to publish excerpts of the emails we’ve exchanged. It will be a while before I hear from him because, at the time of this writing, Dr. Diamond is in Japan and I will soon be leaving for the Michigan Womyn’s Music Festival (MichFest) where I will be giving my presentation as a workshop. No internet in the woods of northern Michigan!)<br /><br />Yes, there is more than enough evidence to gather from all the disciplines to create a volume that could serve many good purposes. We could all collaborate on its compilation. What a stunning scientific enterprise that would be!<br /><br />Do I have questions for Milton Diamond? Oh, yes. Here are two questions that have been on my mind for some time.<br /><br />1. Mickey asserts that transsexual people are a kind of intersex. All the neurological evidence indicates this is, indeed, the case. Gay and lesbian brains are also atypical. Does Dr. Diamond consider gay and lesbian people to be types of intersex as well?<br />2. The preponderance of evidence indicates that both sexual identity and sexual orientation are innate and independent sensibilities of core sexuality, each having structural correlates in the brain, and that the prenatal organization responsible for each of these sensibilities is hard-wired. How do we explain the people who appear to undergo a dramatic change in sexual orientation?<br /><br />For example, some transsexuals change sexual orientation upon transitioning with its attendant exogenous hormone treatment. And you, Zoe, have undergone a change in sexual orientation, apparently as a result of natural endogenous hormonal transitioning. In these instances, have the brains been prenatally organized as bisexual in orientation, but these individuals sense the “other orientation” only after activation of the organized brain region(s) by the new hormone levels – i.e. a puberty-like brain awakening? And if this is the case, then how do we explain “ordinary bisexuals” who vacillate back and forth instead of changing sexual orientation. Genetics is a factor also, I’m sure.<br /><br />I’m curious to know what Dr. Diamond thinks about these questions, and also would love feedback from you, Zoe, and everyone else out there.<br /><br />Zoe, please give Milton Diamond my regards when you meet him,<br /><br />RonnieVeronica Drantz, PhDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03459966721114852508noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8788527586464580894.post-64534833868872033352009-08-01T08:13:32.794-05:002009-08-01T08:13:32.794-05:00I should be meeting Milton Diamond in Hawaii in a ...I should be meeting Milton Diamond in Hawaii in a few weeks. I'll draw this article to his attention.<br /><br />We really should gather all the evidence from multiple disciplines in one compact volume. <br /><br />Anything you'd like me to ask him?<br /><br />All the best, and thanks so much for your work,<br />ZoeZoe Brainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13712045376060102538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8788527586464580894.post-87040912128339631472009-08-01T03:49:58.537-05:002009-08-01T03:49:58.537-05:00anonymous said-
"I still believe that the te...anonymous said-<br /><br /><i>"I still believe that the term Intersex should be used because it only apply to those who have a genetic DNA condition and those who are born with Ambiguous genitals."</i><br /><br />That is not correct-<br /><br />individuals with 5-alpha-reductase deficiency have 46, XY karyotypes and can present with normal male external genitalia, ambiguous genitalia, or normal female genitalia. Even though they may appear female in both primary and secondary sex characteristics and gender ID, they may become virilized at puberty and their internal testes can descend, and some will develop a corresponding male gender ID.<br /><br />17-beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase deficiency can similarly cause 46, XY individuals to have complete female external genitalia at birth.<br /><br />Same goes for complete androgen insensitivity syndrome.<br /><br />While a full inspection of the <i>entire</i> reproductive system or lack thereof in any of these individuals will show some anomaly, their genitalia often shows no ambiguity at all.<br /><br />As for the "DSD" terminology, unless there is a concerted effort being made to continue pathologizing people with intersex conditions regardless of their actual functional abilities, it would seem that "variations" could be easily substituted...<br /><br />especially in light of the very real emotional and social repercussions of having one's entire being labeled as "disordered" (especially when it comes to any related gender identity issues), one would think that people of conscience whose jobs were ostensibly to make the lives of intersex people better would be going out of their way to avoid using such loaded terminology- sadly the exact opposite is true, and anyone who brings these issues up is likely to get smeared as just a kook and a rabble rouser by those pushing the DSD model and terminology...almost none of whom are themselves intersexed, but who presume to speak for those who are.TinaSDnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8788527586464580894.post-19329195972223289252009-07-31T18:26:19.741-05:002009-07-31T18:26:19.741-05:00In my Opinion, DSD is a step in the right directio...In my Opinion, DSD is a step in the right direction, but it's by no means perfect. Though I hope that someday, they can revise it and make it more clear and accurate to use.<br /><br />I still believe that the term Intersex should be used because it only apply to those who have a genetic DNA condition and those who are born with Ambiguous genitals.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8788527586464580894.post-72140704849559094712009-07-31T00:49:59.988-05:002009-07-31T00:49:59.988-05:00This was a very concise synopsis of the various is...This was a very concise synopsis of the various issues and angles at play in this debate, well done.<br /><br />What never ceases to amaze me is how human sexual differentiation and related gender roles and issues are treated by medicine as being wholly detached from the biological realities of other flora and fauna, where asexual reproduction, hermaphroditism, chimerism, natural sex changes and the like occur all the time and are not treated as defects...worker bees have no reproductive capabilities, the mangrove killifish (<i>rivulus marmoratus</i>) is not only a hermaphroditic vertebrate but can fertilize its own eggs, and there are even plants that cannot reproduce without the assistance of a member of an entirely different taxonomic <i>kingdom</i>.<br /><br />Yet when it comes to humans, we are expected to believe that any individual that strays from a strictly binary sex/gender norm and is lacking full reproductive capabilities/desires either by accident or choice is automatically defective.TinaSDnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8788527586464580894.post-8361130268101224502009-07-30T18:17:36.377-05:002009-07-30T18:17:36.377-05:00Hi Ronnie
In my opinion this clarification of Mick...Hi Ronnie<br />In my opinion this clarification of Mickey Diamond's position and the whole DSD debate is very helpful.<br /><br />The practice of pathologizing any and variations from an wholly artificial biological norm needs to be revisited.<br /><br />Albest and thanks.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com